Hasan Minhaj on Comedy in America Today

EDITORS’ NOTE: Hasan Minhaj — American comedian and actor and former host of the Netflix series, Patriot Act — discusses his insights on current challenges in America, his personal advice to all artists, and the future of entertainment and comedy. A first-generation American, Minhaj joined The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and he was also the featured speaker at the 2017 White House Correspondents’ Dinner. Published for Brown Girl Magazine.

Full Interview

Interest in Comedy

Sahil Badruddin: I have heard you say comedy is like funny speech and debate. I’m just curious about what sparked your initial interest in comedy.

Hasan Minhaj: When I was in college, I went to undergrad right around the time where universities were going from — people at home had DSL but universities would have T3 super high-speed internet. This is way pre-Netflix but people would use things like Kazaa, LimeWire, and they would just download everything.

It was the first time where — I went to school UC Davis where people would just torrent just backlogs of everything. I have every episode of South Park, I have every episode of King of the Hill, I have every episode of The Simpsons. I have every standard special from Comedy Central; every half hour, every one hour.

I ended up going into a friend’s dorm room and he showed me stand-up. I wasn’t really familiar with the art form. When I was watching the special called Chris Rock’s Never Scared, I was like, “Oh, this is funny speech and debate.” He’s presenting an argument but just doing it in a funny way.

Sahil: The advice you’ve given to become a top comedian, and I think you got this from Conan O’Brien —

Hasan: Yes.

Sahil: — move to the city that does what you want, immerse yourself with the community, rise among the ranks and then be nice to everyone.

Hasan: Be nice, yes, which is huge.

Sahil: But, you know, like many things it’s harder than it looks especially when you’re going through the process.

Hasan: Right.

Personal Motivation

Sahil: I’m curious about what kept you motivated and driven when you were in that process.

Hasan: You know what’s really great about something like stand-up which is a live performance medium? It’s something that you do every night, there’s a built-in community of open mics every night.

What just kept me going was two things. Number one, the community; every night in the cities — when I first started it was Sacramento, then San Francisco, then Los Angeles, and then finally New York where I live now. Every night there are so many different open mics. I just set those little goals; tonight, I’m going to the BrainWash Café, which was an open mic at a laundromat. Tonight, I’m going to this open mic at a coffee shop and I’m going to this [other] open mic. I would just — those would be the little monkey bars that would get me through every day.

I really looked at jokes as like puzzles. When you put together an act, that’s like the puzzle coming together and you start to see it become something. Five minutes become seven minutes, seven minutes becomes 10 minutes, 10 minutes becomes 15 minutes, 20 minutes so on and so forth.

The second part was putting together jokes. I really looked at jokes as like puzzles. When you put together an act, that’s like the puzzle coming together and you start to see it become something. Five minutes become seven minutes, seven minutes becomes 10 minutes, 10 minutes becomes 15 minutes, 20 minutes so on and so forth. Then you start to put them away like these little blocks of material. I became really obsessed with putting together these puzzles and then putting the puzzle together for a whole thing.

As I continued to evolve in my career, I just kept going, “Where can I take this? Where can I take this? Where can I take this?” I went from just seeing if I can put together jokes to constructing an act; just a standard comedy act to then putting together an hour. Then from putting together an hour to being like maybe I want to go even deeper from just jokes. Maybe I can do storytelling; take storytelling and comedy and take that to off-Broadway. Let’s see if I can do that — just continuing to evolve. I’m just —

Sahil: Just hustling —

Hasan: Yes, just continuing to get better at the craft and evolving and see where I can take comedy.

Challenges for Upcoming Comedians

Sahil: Besides skill, what do you feel are some of the biggest challenges new and upcoming comedians or artists face currently in America?

Hasan: I think it’s two things. I would say that the number one pressure is, especially for artists that grow up in communities like ours, there’s this huge pressure of how do you define success in a career where there are really no guarantees?

Look, everything in life especially in the workforce is subjective but — especially art. Art is one of the most subjective things. Finding a career in show business is also incredibly subjective. How do you define success by that? Sometimes people don’t know how to define it for themselves. Sometimes they’re defining it the way other people define it. I think that’s a lot of pressure and something I struggled with when I was a young artist; what is making it mean.

Look, everything in life especially in the workforce is subjective but — especially art. Art is one of the most subjective things. Finding a career in show business is also incredibly subjective. How do you define success by that? … I think that’s a lot of pressure and something I struggled with when I was a young artist; what is making it mean.

The second thing is, while you’re dealing with the struggle, grind and climb, how do you stay true to your own voice? How do you find your voice and cultivate that? There’s a little bit of like you have to immerse yourself in a community but you also have to really get things to really be quiet and really think about, “What do I want to say? What do I want to share with the world?”

Especially when you’re coming up, you really want to be like your role models. You really try to emulate them. As you continue to evolve and grow, you start to realize, “Look, there’s only one me. I really have to refine and hone and find my own unique voice.”

Sahil: I’m going to ask something a little more personal. As you hustled your way through this, there were times, I know you’ve spoken publicly, where you said your parents didn’t always support you until you made it, right?

Hasan: Right.

Advice for Those Struggling

Sahil: What advice would you give for a guy who’s hustling, who’s struggling? But you know there are certain hurdles in certain cultures, for example, there’s less appreciation for arts or music or comedy as careers. As you said, there’s no tangible metric, right? Even advice on how to have that conversation with parents and peers.

Hasan: Look, there does come a point I think for every artist where you just have to burn the boats. It really is — it does come down to where you just have to rip the bandage off. I remember that happen when my LSAT score expired. I had to have just like a really rough conversation with my parents. That was a real thing I had to go through.

My parents, their concern was just like, “It’s not that we don’t think that —

Sahil: They care about you.

Hasan: — you doing comedy is a bad thing.” No, we think you’re very capable. We think that — we just want everything to be okay. We want your life to be okay. We don’t want you to struggle. We don’t want you to live on an air mattress and all that stuff.”

I think I came to a really important conclusion for myself; I can only do things that I’m all in for. I just really loved comedy that much. Honestly, I had no problem sleeping on an air mattress and just having my yellow notepad and having my show that night.

I think I came to a really important conclusion for myself; I can only do things that I’m all in for. I just really loved comedy that much. Honestly, I had no problem sleeping on an air mattress and just having my yellow notepad and having my show that night.

Sahil: As long as you did what you loved?

Hasan: Yeah. For me, I really realized making it was just — there was a moment where look, there was gas in my car, I was able to go to chipotle and get a burrito with avocado. I could afford the extra $1.45 to have guac. I had health care and I was doing what I loved. I’m like, “This is it. This is making it. This moment where I’m at, if it increases any more, that’s great, but this is making it.” I’m paying rent and doing what I love.

Sahil: This was pre-‘Daily Show’, right?

Hasan: Pre-‘Daily Show’. I just came to terms with it. I’m just like, “Look, people in the community think I’m a loser, I’m not funny, but I have a person who loves me who’s now my wife, I’m healthy and I do what I love.” At that point — and you hit a certain age where you’re just like, “Look, I’m 28, 29, I really can’t entertain trying to make you happy or trying to convince you that I’m worthy of your appreciation or support.”

Sahil: You made a good point about at least you met the basic necessities and you made peace with that and then it still kicked off.

Hasan: Yeah. To me, it’s just like — especially in show business people who I look up to; the Jim Gaffigans, the Jon Stewarts, the Jerry Seinfelds, they’ve all told me. This concept of fame, it ebbs and flows, it is not constant. There are going to be times where people are like, “Oh my god, you’re selling out theatres” and there’s times where people are like, “I’m not really into him anymore.”

[P]eople who I look up to; the Jim Gaffigans, the Jon Stewarts, the Jerry Seinfelds, they’ve all told me. This concept of fame, it ebbs and flows, it is not constant. There are going to be times where people are like, “Oh my god, you’re selling out theatres” and there’s times where people are like, “I’m not really into him anymore.”

One of the biggest inspirations for me was this comedian named Dick Gregory who passed away. Dick Gregory was one of the most famous, most prominent both political comedians and African American comedians. He was just a real trailblazer. He broke a lot of ground. He passed away in his 80s. He’s a legend; every comedian respects him.

I had this conversation while talking to another comedian friend of mine; what was really amazing about Dick Gregory is he was playing at Caroline’s Comedy Club, which is a comedy club which sits maybe 300 or less. He is an icon, but he still had dates on the books before his death. I remember my friend and I, Roy Wood, Jr —

Sahil: He was 80!

Hasan: In his 80s. He was like, “Man, Dick Gregory has dates on the books when he died.” That’s incredible; that’s incredible to me. That’s how I define success. I really encourage other artists to define it that way too.

Growth in Comedy

Sahil: What kind of comedy do you feel still has a lot of white space and space for growth?

Hasan: I think political comedy specifically. I’m really excited about the space that Patriot Act (Netflix Show) can live in. I think for the longest time, especially when it comes to news and political news, we’ve either been spoke for or spoken to; one of those two things.

When you think about headline pieces that shape our lives or shape our identity, there’s just so much in the American political satire space that hasn’t addressed things like the United States’ relationship with Saudi Arabia, the rise of nationalism in India, Brexit — these huge global topics — elections in Venezuela. These huge topics that are affecting hundreds of millions of people.

On the Patriot Act offices at — in our offices in New York, on my whiteboard in my office, there’s this big thing where — because I get asked all the time, “What space does this show live in?” It says 6.4b and it’s underlined and my co-writer and co-creator of the show, Prashanth, he came into my office early on when we were in pre-production, and he wrote that on my whiteboard. He says, “There’s 6.4 billion people in the world with melanin.”

On the Patriot Act offices at — in our offices in New York, on my whiteboard in my office, there’s this big thing where — because I get asked all the time, “What space does this show live in?” It says 6.4b and it’s underlined … “There’s 6.4 billion people in the world with melanin.” … That’s the white space I think that’s going to be raised. It’s actually not the white space, it’s the brown space.

This cognitive framework of “Hey, where is the show going to fit? Who is it going to speak to?” There’s more people who look like me than don’t. In fact, the conversation should be towards any other late-night host. How are you going to relate to those 6.4 billion people who don’t immediately share your frame of reference or way of life or understanding or perception of the world? That’s the white space I think that’s going to be raised. It’s actually not the white space, it’s the brown space.

Sahil: Yes [chuckles]. But then, how do we prop these people up? How do we encourage them to see that they can make it, and we have such a diverse group in the world that —

Hasan: Yeah, totally. Don’t you think we’re seeing it right now?

Sahil: Yes. I think it’s the rise of it.

Hasan: I think it’s awesome. I think it’s every seat that’s filled with every show, it’s every retweet, it’s every like on Instagram, it’s every time people sit down and watch and share these videos. It’s spreading, and it’s inspiring people. I’m really excited to see — I just see the breadth of talent.

Sahil: You’ve mentioned that in the next 15 years of entertainment will include more female voices, especially —

Hasan: Oh, 100%.

Sahil: Brown and even Muslim female —

Hasan: And I cannot wait to see. That’s going to be really cool.

Sahil: How do we help create that better environment to see that? Is it already happening or — ?

Hasan: Yes. I think the biggest thing that new voices, and especially voices from diverse, different communities that we haven’t heard from, whether it’s women of color or people from the LGBTQ community. I think the biggest thing that they need, we all need, is just space. They need to be included in the bills on comedy shows or in the writer’s room and having inclusion that way gives them an opportunity to shine.

I think the biggest thing that new voices, and especially voices from diverse, different communities that we haven’t heard from, whether it’s women of color or people from the LGBTQ community … need is just space. They need to be included in the bills on comedy shows or in the writer’s room … My biggest thing as a dude is to just get out of the way and let them share their stories and be great.

My biggest thing as a dude is to just get out of the way and let them share their stories and be great. That’s one of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned and to do everything that I can to make space, listen, and contribute.

Self Deprecating Humor and How to Overcome it

Sahil: There’s a tendency, especially when performing comedy, to use self-deprecating humor. For example, for South Asians, people use Indian accents, the “Apu Syndrome”, right?

Hasan: Yeah.

Sahil: How do we go beyond that?

Hasan: To me, it’s “Are you laughing at me or with me?” A common trope in all forms of comedy is high-class, low-class. You have the protagonist in the joke, and something is happening to the protagonist. Some outside external factor, outside of the race, is happening to them. Or maybe, because of the race, but there is something that is happening to them where they are the victim of circumstances. We’ve all felt that. You’re walking on the road, all of a sudden, bird poop lands on your shoulder. We’ve felt those moments before, right?

Sahil: Right.

Hasan: Or you feel like you’re walking into a door, and it’s not a door, and it’s just a window, and your face-plant. Why are those things funny? I think it’s because people find it funny that, “Hey, like you were embarrassed” because I think we’ve all felt that way before. My thing is that I want to tap into the human condition, and I’m totally okay with self-deprecating humor as long as it’s tapped into that and it’s not linked to just something where you’re going to just laugh at a stereotype.

My thing is that I want to tap into the human condition, and I’m totally okay with self-deprecating humor as long as it’s tapped into that and it’s not linked to just something where you’re going to just laugh at a stereotype.

Sahil: But I feel like some of these racial and ethnic stereotypes sometimes amplify rather than —

Hasan: Do you think it’s getting worse?

Sahil: No, I think it’s been the same.

Hasan: Oh, really? Like it’s stayed the same since even the ’90s? They’re still —

Sahil: I think it may be getting a little bit better because people are recognizing it more. I mean, the “Apu Syndrome”, there was a whole — I think I’m sure you saw —

Hasan: The documentary? Yes.

Sahil: Yes. I think there’s been more recognition of it, but you’re saying … are you using it in the positive sense versus the — ?

Hasan: Yeah, like how do I just happen to the everyday human condition that everyone knows and feels. Those common emotions of pain, love, lost, anxiety, fear, embarrassment, those are the things we all feel.

Sahil: The human condition. The human feelings.

Hasan: Yes.

Sahil: I believe there are young people in the South Asian and Muslim community who look up to you as a role model.

Responsibilities of a Role Model

What kind of responsibility now do you feel compared to many years ago of defining yourself as part of an identity? Do you feel responsibility? Do you feel like you can give lessons to that as people do look up to you?

Hasan: I definitely feel super-humbled that people would consider me to be somebody that they would look up to and admire and all that stuff. It’s definitely a lot of pressure, and there’s definitely feelings of “Hey, you can’t mess up because people are watching, people are looking at you, and people maybe turn to you.”

Sahil: With great power comes great responsibility.

Hasan: Yes, but I talked to Jon Stewart about this, and I was like, “How do you deal with stuff like this?” He said, “Look, make no mistake. There is no one song, movie, or joke that will change the world.” It is my job at the show to do the best possible work that I can and perhaps that provides some clarity or some respite. Some relief to your life. That’s it.

But the real change, the necessary condition for change, actually doesn’t come from us artists. It actually comes from action in the streets, like people actually enacting changes in congress with their senator, marching, voting. Those are necessary conditions to change, not a joke. At best, what we do is we strike a lightning bolt of inspiration that gets people to possibly do something.

But the real change, the necessary condition for change, actually doesn’t come from us artists. It actually comes from action in the streets, like people actually enacting changes in congress with their senator, marching, voting. Those are necessary conditions to change, not a joke. At best, what we do is we strike a lightning bolt of inspiration that gets people to possibly do something. Again, it’s a sufficient condition, not a necessary condition.

Breaking through Post-Fact World

Sahil: So we’re living in this post-truth, post-fact world, sometimes. Do you see comedy as breaking through and breaking echo chambers, breaking through some of these views and perspectives?

Hasan: Right. Yes, we’re living in a time where reality itself is up for grabs, and it’s really scary and terrifying, but the closest thing that I can see to trying to figure that out is to hit people on both places: hearts and minds. It’s why with some of our act structure that you saw tonight, there’s stats and there’s values. I acknowledge that. It’s like, “Hey, look, I’m showing you all the stuff, but it doesn’t matter. I’m giving you a rational argument to an irrational thing.” That means nothing. We’ve all argued with people on Facebook. It’s not going to work.

Sahil: It’s an emotional thing.

Hasan: It’s an emotional thing. That’s why I do both. I want to address both. The values part, the heart part, “Hey, I just feel this way. This is just what I feel.” Then also, hit you with the head stuff.

Sahil: I think comedy gives the mixture rather than a lecture, right?

Hasan: Hopefully. Yes, hopefully. Look, at the end of the day, if someone doesn’t want to change, they can’t. Again, all I can do is just do the best possible work that I can. I think sometimes people are just like, “Well, comedians, why can’t you solve this all?” and it’s like, “Hey, man, we’re all doing our part.” As artists or politicians or journalists, if we all do the best possible work we can, hopefully, it moves the needle forward.

Look, at the end of the day, if someone doesn’t want to change, they can’t. Again, all I can do is just do the best possible work that I can. I think sometimes people are just like, “Well, comedians, why can’t you solve this all?” and it’s like, “Hey, man, we’re all doing our part.” As artists or politicians or journalists, if we all do the best possible work we can, hopefully, it moves the needle forward.

Sahil: It’s a collective.

Hasan: Yes.

Sahil: Thank you so much.

Hasan: Thanks, man.

About Hasan Minhaj

Hasan Minhaj is the former host and creator of the comedy show, “Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj”. Minhaj earned rave reviews for his one-hour Netflix comedy special Hasan Minhaj: Homecoming King that earned him a 2018 Peabody Award, and for his performance hosting the 2017 White House Correspondents’ Dinner. A first-generation American, Minhaj joined The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, where he was Jon’s last hire, in November 2014 as a correspondent and continued on in that role after Trevor Noah took over as host the following year. He ended his nearly four years on the show in August 2018.